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Incident: France A388 over Greenland on Sep 30th 2017, uncontained engine failure, fan and engine inlet separated
By Simon Hradecky, created Saturday, Sep 30th 2017 17:52Z, last updated Thursday, May 9th 2019 16:21Z
An Air France Airbus A380-800, registration F-HPJE performing flight AF-66 from Paris Charles de Gaulle (France) to Los Angeles,CA (USA) with 497 passengers and 24 crew, was enroute at FL370 about 200nm southeast of Nuuk (Greenland) when the fan and inlet of the #4 engine (GP7270, outboard right hand) separated from the engine. The crew descended the aircraft to FL310 and diverted to Goose Bay,NL (Canada) for a safe landing about 2 hours later at 12:41L (15:41Z). Emergency services reported hydraulic fluid leaking from the engine.
A runway inspection discovered debris on the arrival runway, which needed to be cleaned before the runway could be reopened.
A passenger reported there was a loud thud followed by vibrations.
The passengers report they were kept on board of the aircraft until arrival of the replacement aircraft because the airport does not have stairs to accomodate the A380.
The airline reported the aircraft diverted to Goose Bay following serious damage to one of the four engines. Flight and Cabin crew handled the serious incident perfectly. Teams are being dispatched to Goose Bay to assist the passengers, the airline is working to re-route the passengers to Los Angeles via their connecting platforms in North America.
The airline later reported that airline staff reached Goose Bay and now takes care of the passengers. Two flights were dispatched to Goose Bay to pick up the passengers and take them to Los Angeles. An Air France Boeing 777-300 registration F-GZNO arriving from Montreal,QC (Canada) reached Goose Bay at about 02:50L (05:50Z) and departed Goose Bay for Atlanta,GA (USA) at flight AF-4080 at 06:55L (09:55Z). An additional Boeing 737-300 registration C-GNLQ leased in from Nolinor arrived 3 hours ago and already departed Goose Bay as flight NRL-580 to Winnipeg,MB (Canada) and further to Los Angeles.
The passengers disembarked via stairs and boarded the replacement aircraft.
On Oct 1st 2017 the Canadian TSB reported they have dispatched a team of investigators to Goose Bay to collect evidence and assess the occurrence.
On Oct 3rd 2017 the French BEA announced, that the Danish Aviation Authorities (responsible also for Greenland) have delegated the investigation to the BEA. Representatives of Denmark, the US NTSB and the Canadian TSB have joined the investigation. Four BEA investigators accompanied by advisors from Airbus and Air France departed to Goose Bay on Oct 1st, NTSB investigators accompanied by advisors from Engine Alliance (General Electric and Pratt Whitney) travelled to Goose Bay. A fifth BEA investigator travelled to Ottawa for a first reading of the FDR data which confirmed the fan separation took place over Greenland. First observation of the engine suggests, the fan - the first rotating element - detached in flight dragging the air inlet with it. The damage appears to be limited to engine #4 and its immediate environment.
On Oct 5th 2017 the BEA announced that following read out of the flight data recorder the position of the engine failure was identified about 81nm/150km southeast of Paamiut (Greenland). A helicopter of Air Greenland was dispatched on request by the Danish Havarikommission (HCL), overflew the area on Oct 4th 2017 and spotted the engine debris in an area covered with ice and desert at the West Coast. The BEA is now in cooperation with HCL to get the recovery of the debris organized. The analysis of the blackboxes continues at the laboratories of BEA, the engine is being analysed at the premises of the engine manufacturer. The BEA investigators dispatched to Goose Bay and Ottawa are returning to France.
On Oct 6th 2017 the BEA released photos of the engine parts found on the ground in Greenland and reported that a few of the engine parts found on the ground have been recovered and are now on their way to the BEA via the Danish Authorities. Another mission to recover the remaining engine parts is being organized as soon as the weather permits.
On Oct 11th 2017 the BEA announced that engine #4 is to be deposited in Goose bay before decisions about the further investigation are to be taken. Teams of Air France and Airbus are going to remove the engine from the aircraft and put into storage. The engine is subsequently expected to be shipped to Cardiff,WL (UK) into a General Electrics facility where the BEA investigators are going to travel to to continue analysis. It is being studied as to how the aircraft can be ferried to Europe for repairs and return into service with Air France. Due to the complex logistics of these operations the schedule may spread over several weeks. In the meantime the search and recovery of the parts that detached in flight over Greenland continues in Greenland.
On Oct 12th 2017 the FAA released their emergency airworthiness directive (EAD) 2017-21-51 reporting an Engine Alliance GP7270 engine (obviously referencing engine #4 of F-HPJE) suffered an uncontained engine failure. The engine had accumulated 3,527 flight cycles since new commenting "which is a relatively high cycle engine." The FAA issues the EAD as an interim action reasoning: "An investigation to determine the cause of the failure is on-going and we may consider additional rulemaking if final action is identified." The EAD identifies the unsafe condition as: "This AD was prompted by failure of a fan hub. We are issuing this AD to prevent failure of the fan hub, which could lead to uncontained release of the fan hub, damage to the engine and damage to the airplane." The EAD requires visual inspections of the fan hubs with 3,500 flight cycles or more within 2 weeks and fan hubs with 2,000 or more flight cycles within 8 weeks. The fan hubs are to be removed from service if damage or defects are found outside serviceable limits.
On Dec 6th 2017 at 16:20Z the occurrence aircraft departed for Paris from Goose Bay initially climbing to FL370, subsequently climbing to FL410 (indicative all 4 engines are operating normally). Air France confirmed that the aircraft departed with all 4 engines operating.
On Dec 7th 2017 the airline reported the aircraft has successfully positioned back to Paris Charles de Gaulle operating on all 4 engines and operated by Air France Crew. The aircraft is now undergoing additional checks before returning to service in a few weeks time.
On May 9th 2019 the BEA released their technical report into the search for engine debris detailling the efforts and computations undertaken to locate the debris on the ice sheet of Greenland. The BEA states: "Despite the amount of work and efforts deployed for the operations described above, the fan hub fragments were not reliably detected at the end of June 2018." Further search work has been scheduled for 2019.
Engine debris on the ground in Greenland (Photos: BEA):
Wing and engine seen after flight (Photo: David Rehmar):
The engine seen in flight (Photo: Chris):
The engine seen in flight (Photo: Miguel Amador):
The engine seen in flight (Photo: Rick Engebretsen):
Reader Comments: (the comments posted below do not reflect the view of The Aviation Herald but represent the view of the various posters)
@needle in a haystack on Friday, May 10th 2019 12:22Z By (anonymous) on Friday, May 10th 2019 23:30Z
It's the same concept as how they find meteorites in Antarctica. If it's on the ground and not white, it fell from the sky.
By needle in a haystack on Friday, May 10th 2019 12:22Z
I'm surprised they found the parts when they cant find alot of larger things...
Zack By Jetman on Friday, May 10th 2019 12:17Z
A poster gave you the EGT max which is generally taken in the first stg of the LPT. Basically, intake temp is basically the same as outside,on latest engine generation High pressure compressor exit before combustor around 600 deg C, combustor around 2000 degC. There is obviously a difference depending of engine power so your question is not precise enough to give you a right number.
Lack of information By IR41 on Friday, May 10th 2019 11:18Z
Personally I find the BEA report lacks any detail that pinpoints the actual issue. It seems that the precise cause of the Fan Hub failure is unknown. Was it fatigue, misassembly, design, prior damage, inflight damage etc.
@zack By Babo on Friday, May 10th 2019 07:41Z
EGT is: ground start: 745°C take off: 1000°C (max. 5 min) cruise: 970°C
temperature By zackafeey on Tuesday, Feb 26th 2019 18:22Z
can anyone tell me the temperature of GP700 at the fan, compressor and exhaust chamber at the cruising speed ? or at the N1 and N2.
temperature By zack on Tuesday, Feb 26th 2019 18:22Z
can anyone tell me the temperature of GP700 at the fan, compressor and exhaust chamber at the cruising speed ? or at the N1 and N2.
By Ray_Y on Friday, Apr 13th 2018 16:05Z
No news at all? No more directives? No urgency ...
So it was very individual issue and won't repeat.
F-HPJE Back By BuckDanny on Friday, Jan 26th 2018 07:38Z
The bird F-HPJE is now back to service 19th of Jan. End of the episode. Waiting for the investigation report.
an external opinion By Ray_Y on Friday, Dec 22nd 2017 11:26Z
A user Locking Nut somwhere else claims 13-DEC that the engine is still sitting in a shop corner uninspected. Reason as he states: The investigation already knows the failure reason with the fan. Core is not too interesting (means the booster was not part of the problem, the Front Bearing wasn't, ...)
They found some more Fan parts than the pix show. And he claims it was an individual failure, no systematic issue of the GE series.
Since there was no additional AD issued, I really believe the Fan was the only root cause. But we can't be sure.
Discussions By Jock on Tuesday, Dec 12th 2017 14:12Z
Discussions around 'root-cause' can be highly technical, with or without tech people. No intent to offend in what follows.
We agree surely on the point that, Tech people, whom one always respects, can help us to learn. Some of us lean on our ignorance in order to learn. That is why non-tech people ask questions about things they do not understand, and very much enjoy good responses, & / or being corrected, because, generally, they have no pre-conceived ideas about answers to be received. They are not NIH people. They are more interested in the knowledgeable answers they receive from the 'learned', than in the questions they ask.
Reciprocity has its place, too. Nice tech people do not usually rear-up against other Non-tech, who have / may have specificities that Nice-Tech may not have.
By Ray_Y on Tuesday, Dec 12th 2017 11:54Z
After nice discussions with tech people here I had the impression that it's time to wait for new facts:
By Ray_Y on Thursday, Dec 7th 2017 16:30Z The plane is in Paris now. I am waiting for updated info from investigation now.
By RayY on Wednesday, Oct 18th 2017 09:52Z I now would like to lean back and wait for more facts. You guys are not interested playing with theories anymore, right?
Not much more to do (apart from discussing the matching stairs in Goose Bay)
@Ray_Y ; keep yawning By Jock on Tuesday, Dec 12th 2017 02:11Z
No game. I am NOT being drawn into argument. You have had plenty of freedom to jaw away & yawn at will. You & your "I know". Unfortunately, you do not. Never mind.
But, thanks for confirming that it is the State of Play. It was anticipated. We're there. Back to Official Enquiry & root-cause search. 'ED states : inspections are an interim measure, as the cause of the fan failure has yet to be determined.'
On Sept. 30 last, it was writ : -- ‘To begin with, let's be professional for once, and just wait for the official enquiry to provide its interim conclusions.’ -- 'It should inspire the arm-chair experts to have patience, and wait for the Investigation professionals, charged with the Official Enquiry, to express themselves. But, as usual, such a wish will doubtless prove to be a non-starter.'
No comment.
Drome's By Ray_Y on Monday, Dec 11th 2017 20:10Z
Yawn. Good Morning Master of JOCK-O-DROME. I know you're playing a game. So yes that's the state of the play.
Emergency directive By Jock on Monday, Dec 11th 2017 00:09Z
I hope that this is NOT violating site-rules. Is this the latest "state of play "? -- Operators of Airbus A380s equipped with Engine Alliance GP7200 engines are ordered to carry out urgent inspection of the engines' fan hubs for damage.
-- USA FAA's issue of an Emergency Directive (ED) follows the uncontained failure of a GP7200.
-- Said directive is aimed at preventing failure of fan hub, engine damage, and potential airframe damage.
-- ED states : inspections are an interim measure, as the cause of the fan failure has yet to be determined. ---------------
No comment.
Costs @ YYR By morno on Friday, Dec 8th 2017 16:20Z
Nosewheel, It's no mystery:
Air France By ASRSHIA on Friday, Dec 8th 2017 10:57Z
As i think , Air France is poor.
ferry fight on 3 engines By lee on Friday, Dec 8th 2017 03:46Z
I still don't understand why, if the aircraft was controllable and flew just fine to Canada, why it couldn't be ferried back as is? No pax, no cargo.
Presumably, the A380 was designed similar to the 747 in that it could be flown with an dead engine, even if that engine was missing weight.
Along those lines, I wonder if the engine pylon/mounts weren't designed to handle that kind of change in weight distribution for in flight operation.
Aircraft parking and room for passengers By Mattias on Friday, Dec 8th 2017 01:47Z
Nosewheel: Google and a UK newspaper told me that the BA2276 fire (engine fire before or during take off at LAS) resulted in a $65000 parking fee for nearly six months. Tom C: The building I believe is the terminal building at Goose Bay is about 130 * 30 meters with an, to me, unknown number of levels. Assuming only one level, it's 4000 square meters (43000 square feet). This A380 had 521 people on board. I have no information about chair availability at that airport.
First post didn't work very well..... :(
Aircraft parking and room for passengers By Mattias on Friday, Dec 8th 2017 01:44Z
@Nosewheel Google and a UK newspaper told me that the BA2276 fire (engine fire before or during take off at LAS) resulted in a $65000 parking fee for nearly six C The building I believe is the terminal building at Goose Bay is about 130 * 30 meters with an, to me, unknown number of levels. Assuming only one level, it's 4000 square meters (43000 square feet). This A380 had 521 people on board. I have no information about chair availability at that airport.
By (anonymous) on Thursday, Dec 7th 2017 20:19Z
On this board there is always a lot of people to say Air France is poor, credit due where deserved, this situation was handled as good as it could have been. Good job Air France.
By Nosewheel on Thursday, Dec 7th 2017 18:27Z
Can anyone tell me if airlines get billed for costs incurred after they land at an unscheduled airport such as Goose Bay and in what price range?
@ Ormo & Tom C By Mac's on Thursday, Dec 7th 2017 16:59Z
Maybe they shooted an emergency slide for deboarding. Just kidding but indeed it would be interesting to learn more about the issue.
By Ray_Y on Thursday, Dec 7th 2017 16:30Z
Matching stairs were available. The pax statement did not match reality.
The plane is in Paris now. I am waiting for updated info from investigation now.
@Tom C By Ormo on Thursday, Dec 7th 2017 09:46Z
I believe they park progressively smaller vehicles next to each other. Style points are awarded to the most flamboyant parkour displays.
Stairs By Tom C on Thursday, Dec 7th 2017 08:38Z
This may sound daft...but if the airport does not have stairs to get the pax off after arrival, how did they deplane to board the replacement aircraft?
Is the terminal big enough at Goose Bay big enough to accommodate a full(ish) A380?
By Hoffa on Thursday, Dec 7th 2017 04:17Z
Amazing that they were able to pinpoint the location of the debris...
Revenue By (anonymous) on Thursday, Dec 7th 2017 00:00Z
@Michael: AF stated that on short term (in winter) it is not causing much a trouble, since they were able to reschedule some maintenance works on other aircrafts. Should it stay grounded until january, however, would cost some money.
Also, personally I think in the winter there are surely days, when some aircraft wouldn't fly. They are now instead of that rescheduled, and only the number of "total grounded hours per airline" would be lower.
Revenue Stream By Michael on Wednesday, Dec 6th 2017 20:49Z
Will not having one of their few A380s out of commission for 3 months (2+ sitting in Goose Bay) seriously hurt the revenue stream of Air France or is this a slow passenger season where they would have a hard time filling the plane; therefore, increased profitability on A380 routes using a B777 instead? Okay, most probably think of why the failure but I think of an airplane not making me any money sitting on the ground, and in addition all this time getting me publicity I don't like.