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Accident: Swiss A320 at London on Dec 3rd 2013, tail strike
Tailstrike Swiss A320 - HB-IJB
By Arie Wubben on Thursday, Jan 16th 2014 12:08Z
Zürich, 16th January 2014
Obviously, the damage was more severe than assumed, because this aircraft has not yet returned to service.
By John Doe on Saturday, Dec 21st 2013 21:19Z
I have landed immediately before this A320 and can confirm that he was seen and informed by a LH A321 on taxiway J or K (can't recall) stating that they have seen flames during touchdown. Swiss flghtdeck crew at time did not knew that has happened. My approach was normal and remember wind variating a lot, but week in intensity, provoking a longer flare but smooth landing.
A320 has a Pitch auto call out for pitch values above 7.5º UP during landing, and PNF should "shout" deviation to PF. In order to overcome high pitch angles (landing limit around 11º UP) with aft C.G. values either Vapp speed should be increased, slightly lower attitude (longer landing roll) or different flap config. Either way it can happen to anyone (not saying it should).
I'm sure they will learn from it, all passengers safe as well as crew, aircraft has surely returned to service.
By Mech on Tuesday, Dec 17th 2013 00:33Z
So many comments about nothing. No one nows it could be possible that they have some winds on the runway
PTU it is
By Jerome on Saturday, Dec 14th 2013 11:01Z
Thanks to this thread I understand now -- I had heard this strange noise, like a sawing (and less like a barking to me), mostly in A320 after landings when the aircraft would have come to a standstill. Always wondered what it was, but never came around to ask a cabin crew. Now I understand :-)
green policy ? LDG FLAPS 3 ?
By jerome on Thursday, Dec 12th 2013 09:20Z
only supposition ...
LDG FLAPS 3 + aft CG ?
don't like this conf
By MB on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 23:14Z
Funny to see some comments concerning PAX that seem to have "no understanding capabilities" when aboard. It reminds me of the early days when we -young doctors- we were told to hide the truth to patients and families because the truth would scare them. Today a PAX is a lot more safe in a plane than in an operating theatre or in a ICU. Why providing information has not followed the same pace ?
Tailstrike with an A320 ?!?!?!?!?
By Mathew on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 22:14Z
Was not the best day in the life of the "pilot flying"...
By Marcus on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 18:49Z
I flew many times with SWISS and it's partners within Europe and worldwide. I recon them as a safe, carrying airline. As far as I followed incidents on here SWISS isn't know to be an airline with many incidents dispite regular technical problems occuring at any airline of this size. No airline will ever fire on of their crew members just because something went wrong. Wouldnt thaht in return just cause a state of fear amongst the employees which I judge as totally contrary to what they should be in when being at control of an airliner?
By mark on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 16:03Z
I didn't say they are for sure getting fired, but its a possibility when they drove millions of dollar of metal into the pavement.
In addition, it was the way he commented as if everything was the crews fault when the crew probably have no idea it happened. He also assumed he cant trust Swiss anymore, especially on his next flight, making it more dramatic than it needs to be. If you go listen UPS? or one of the MD11 tail strike earlier this year, the pilots only know they had a hard landing, but they didnt know they had a tail strike.
By (anonymous) on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 13:33Z
Just don't mention that "barking" PTU that scares a few passengers each year!
Passengers hearing strange noises
By Phil on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 12:12Z
@Armand: The problem about pax reporting unusual noise is: How to trust this information? You can have a look at the plane, if somebody reports some noises that were scary (by the way the next walk around by the crew before the next flight should tell if anything happened), but you can ask passengers after every flight if there where unusual noises, and there will always be a few who heard "something strange". Might just be the flaps, the ptu, the gear...normal sounds of operation. But for the passenger who does not fly often, it's "a scary, strange noise".
Normaly cabin crew is a good indicator, or people often flying., business man for example (usually not in the rear of the plan though...) - but the rarely flying passenger or on a charter flight the credibility about "strange noises heard" is not very good. Hope that gives you the view of the other side - I totally understand your feelings.
By (anonymous) on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 10:08Z
The Pilot did know and the emergency services were in attendance,
I was watching it land at the time from the viewing area across from the runway,
It turned of the runway and stopped and the fire vehicle drove around and fireman told the crew that there was damage to the rear section.
By Bob Cuin on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 09:37Z
Maybe all 64 pax were seated in the tail section.
By (anonymous) on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 08:54Z
With all the computerized systems that an A320 has, with automated callouts of height above the runway and when to retard the throttles during the flare and so forth, you'd think an accident such as this occurring would be highly improbable. But no, they still scratched the paint on this aircraft! I'd hate to think what would happen if such cues were not provided to the crew.
By michael anthony on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 07:06Z
While I agree with what you write, this incident took place upon arrival. The aircraft then rolled out without incident. Since carriers have policies in place on how to deal with paxs post incident, my suspicion, and its only that, is they may not have been aware. Otherwise, the Captain probably would have explained what may have occurred and then queried if anyone was injured.
By henry on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 06:07Z
Yes, there are instances where pilots may not know what is happening or what are the causes.
But passengers need assurances, particularly if they experienced unusual sounds or airplane attitudes. If the decision is to return to land, then I think a good practice would be to assure passengers that all flight perimeters are normal and the aircraft is flying as expected. Adding that the company will provide assistance upon arrival will certainly help passengers focus more on their connections/destinations rather than have a nagging uncertainty about safety of the flight.
Pilots have the skills to fly and they need to hone their emotional quotients on human relations. CRM is applicable beyond the flight deck too.
By Peter on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 05:09Z
Why do you think that the pilot will be fired? Why are you so rude? Armand is looking for an answer about his flight, because he knew there was something going on.
By B-KPB on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 01:19Z
"Hey come back, I just found out we suffered a tail-strike, but dont worry, you guys will be safe! Just a few million dollars repair and possibly me getting fired"
By Martin on Wednesday, Dec 11th 2013 01:14Z
Not trying to be rude, but it just seems like you were expecting a lot from the pilots who themselves probably arent sure of the tailstrike, and even if they do, they arent obligated to do anything or say anything because you guys arent taking off again. Many times, some pilots dont even know they had a tail strike till someone tell them or after inspection
By Carlos on Tuesday, Dec 10th 2013 22:39Z
Your comment is absolutely fine, and I'm sure you will not get any nasty answers..... The thing about why the flight crew didn't say anything to you (passengers in general), is because as pilot in command of an airplane I won't give non-precise information about the operation.... As you sure imagine, the crew can't be sure about what just happend until they are able to walk out the airplane and complete a walk around to check the fuselage. And that moment just happend until the airplane is parked and the passengers already left the airplane. When this kind of things happend, and after rollout the airplane behaivor is normal and there are no clue to suspect any dangerous to the passengers and the plane itself, the most safe thing to do is continue to parking position and let the passengers left the airplane as normal as always. Panic isn't a good friend in such restricted area like a plane.
By MJR on Tuesday, Dec 10th 2013 22:38Z
It seems to become a habit at LX to scrape their planes in London.
It's not the first time....but will it be the last???
By Armand on Tuesday, Dec 10th 2013 21:37Z
I found this web site accidentally trying to find info about our landing. I was on board that day and it was pretty scary for a regular (non frequent) passenger, but why weren't we told anything about this occurrence? They just made us de-board as normal while we were all frightened. We heard strange sounds we don't normally hear during landing. Why not communicate with your "cattle cargo"? I am to fly back home soon with LX but boy, am I nervous? I am quite prepared to hear nasty things from air people, but have some compassion
By (anonymous) on Tuesday, Dec 10th 2013 19:53Z
Love the banter on this site!
By another Simon on Tuesday, Dec 10th 2013 19:17Z
Whisky tango foxtrot?
Who in his right mind would ask for an Avro when you're being offered a 320? LX can't get rid of those nasty old Avros a day too early.
By Rickenbacker on Tuesday, Dec 10th 2013 19:14Z
So, you mean size does not matter? :)
By Phil on Tuesday, Dec 10th 2013 18:40Z
"64 pax sounds like a job for the Avro" - maybe the return flight (which got cancelled unfortunately) had more bookings than the avros capability ;) Planes are not dispatch just because of the pax number of one flight - so judging the plane size used for that flight only by the pax number makes no sense at all and says nothing at all...
By WILLY on Tuesday, Dec 10th 2013 18:13Z
Any nice scratchy snaps of the exhibit??
By (anonymous) on Tuesday, Dec 10th 2013 17:16Z
64 pax sounds like a job for the Avro
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